Mississippi Happenings

Welcome to this week's edition of Happenings podcast.

My name is David Olds and joining me each week is my friend and co-host, Jim Newman.

Jim has been down with the COVID, so Jim, how are you feeling, my friend?

I wish I didn't have it.

Good.

We do too.

We wish you didn't have it either, but we're glad that you.

you were the lucky ones, but it caught up with you, didn't it?

It finally did.

It finally did.

You were mentioning the other day about the cost of the meds for COVID.

that what I remember you talking about?

Yeah, it used to be that the Paclovid that they give for COVID, I guess the federal
government subsidized it and it was, I don't know, it was at a reasonable price.

But both my wife and I had the COVID and when we went to the pharmacy, each prescription
was $258.

And I found it just very hard to believe from the standpoint of there are hundreds of
people that I know and see very, very frequently that if they get COVID and they got a

prescription for that, there's no way that they could possibly pay for it.

So they just do without.

And that's tragic.

I agree with you and glad that you are with us today and we wish you and Mrs.

Newman to get well soon.

Jim, did I ever tell you that I once worked in a bank?

I believe that you did.

Was that the one that they held up and you were asleep?

No, I got fired from the job at the bank.

I got fired.

You know why I got fired?

I give up.

Tell me.

Let me tell you why I got fired.

I got fired because a man asked me to check his balance, so I pushed him.

David.

Okay, all right, all right.

This week's topic of discussion is the effects of eliminating the Mississippi State income
tax.

Our guest today is Kyra Roby.

She has her bachelor's of arts in international studies from the University of Mississippi
and her law degree from the University of Mississippi.

She is the policy director for One Voice.

And in this position, she is focused on tax and budget policy, education, criminal justice
reform, voting rights, healthcare, poverty, and local Ms.

Roby, it is a pleasure to have you with us and I admire your dedication and commitment to
the underserved and it is a pleasure to have you with us.

Thank you so much for having me on.

It was a pleasure to meet you all and thank you so much for reaching out.

It's always fun to talk about taxes, right?

Amen, amen.

And hopefully we can touch on all these issues that you address for all Mississippians.

Let's start with the state income tax.

On March the 24th, you were published at the Mississippi Today in the article titled,
Income Tax Elimination Risk.

significant harm to Mississippi's future.

Would you share your thoughts on that article and share your thoughts on the elimination
of the state income tax?

Yeah, and I mentioned before that I'm kind of a data person, so I try to have the numbers
with me.

But before we kind of get deep into kind of tax policy, I always like to provide the
context of why it's important.

So I always kind of tell people nobody really likes to pay taxes, right?

Nobody really likes the idea of tax.

Well, yeah, likes the idea of taxes.

Tax policy isn't one of the most interesting.

policy ideas to kind of talk about, but why it's so important is that taxes really are how
we all come together to help fund the government basically.

Taxes, money from tax revenue helps pay for, helps determine the quality of schools that
we have, the kind of roads and bridges that we drive on.

It helps contribute to the cause related to our healthcare systems.

criminal justice systems in terms of public safety and keeping us all safe and secure.

so money from taxes is really how the government rolls, how the government works.

And so the important thing to know about taxes is that we really do need them.

And they are a tool that everybody benefits from.

When we think about Mississippi's tax policy and why it's so important and why this
particular bill is so important, it's because Mississippi has what's called a regressive

tax leaning state, we're a regressive tax leaning state.

So that basically means that we take more from taxes, take more taxes from folks who make
the lease.

And so in Mississippi, our lowest income earners in Mississippi, so Mississippians earning
less than $19,000 a year, they actually pay a higher percentage of their taxes than

wealthier individuals.

And in fact, the wealthiest income earners in Mississippi actually pay the least amount in
terms of a percentage of their income and taxes and everybody else.

So what that really means and equates to is that we really are placing not the burden, but
the fiscal or financial responsibility of funding our government on people who have the

least.

And we're doing that against a backdrop of a state where approximately 20 % of our
residents

live in poverty and another 30 something percent can't afford basic household necessities
according to the United Way's data.

And so we really want to advocate for a tax system that's fair, meaning that everyone pays
their fair share, and one that's equitable, meaning that we help balance the income

inequalities that come from the fiscal or financial responsibility that lower and middle
income families have.

as opposed to wealthier families and corporations for paying into that system.

And so while we say that this particular tax bill risks long-term economic prosperity and
just the prosperity of Mississippi at all, as we look at it from three different

perspectives, the first of which is state revenue.

Again, I talked about tax money or money from taxes helping to pay into the government to
help fund all of these different public services.

Well, the income tax brings in over $2 billion a year in revenue.

Again, it's about equal to the amount of money to fully fund the state's public K-12
education system on its own.

So it brings in a ton of revenue to the state.

And so if we eliminate that, there are specific questions or concerning questions about
what that means for the public services in our state and our economy overall.

How can we fully fund education if we take away $2 billion in state tax revenue?

How do we help build up infrastructure in the state if we take away $2 billion in state
revenue?

All of these kind of things.

How do we help the struggling hospitals in the state and help build up our healthcare
system if we take away $2 billion from the state?

And so there really is a concern about not only the economic longevity and responsibility

of this particular decision, but also what it means for the state's public services.

And so that's the second kind of concern.

The third of which, and which I would argue is the most important, but the one that isn't
really talked about a lot in some of these debates is the actual impact that it would have

on Mississippi's families.

So I mentioned that Mississippians with the lowest incomes already pay a higher percentage
of their income in taxes.

Well, if you eliminate the income tax,

it makes those disparities even greater.

So it widens those disparities.

So eliminating the income tax in this particular bill in general, it would provide an over
$40,000 tax cut to the wealthiest Mississippians.

That is about the average annual income, average annual salary of a Mississippian
altogether, a little over $40,000.

As a result of this,

tax cut is this bill that you talked about, House Bill 1, the lowest income earners in the
state, those that I mentioned are already paying a higher percentage of their income in

taxes, will only receive a tax cut of about $42.

That's barely enough to buy a loaf of bread a month for families.

And so the benefits of the tax cut benefit the wealthy while creating a

even greater financial responsibility on lower and middle income families to help push the
government and help fund those critical public services that we talk about that we want to

need and to help drive the economy long term.

Thank you.

in that House Bill 1, and I'm quoting Mississippi Senator Josh Harkins, a Republican from
Flowood, who I and Jim have invited to come on and talk to us about this, in the article

in Mississippi Today.

He even said himself, reducing the state income tax, and I'm quoting here.

from 4 % to 3 % would result in a 407 million revenue loss for the state.

If you think about this, along with the other federal cuts that's coming under the Trump
administration,

How is Mississippians, how are we going to be able to take care of the things that you
just mentioned?

Our roads, public safety, our public education system.

How are we going to, how are we going to make up this shortfall?

Do you have any ideas on that?

mean.

You know, that's a $2 billion question, right?

How do you make up that money?

You know, we talk about this tax bill in terms of the numbers that were quoted to us.

And I like to kind of come back to that if I remember.

The numbers that were quoted to us.

But we have to remember that in 2022, Mississippi passed the largest tax cut for the
wealthy in the state's history.

And we're still in the implementation process of that tax.

cut, which when fully implemented will cost the state $535 million a year.

That's in addition to over 50 tax cuts since 2012, as reported by Mississippi Today, that
has cost the state over $1 billion in tax cuts.

And that's a blend of both tax cuts for the wealthy and corporate tax cuts.

And so

We're continuing to cut state revenue at a time that you mentioned where there's so much
uncertainty on the federal level.

And I will argue that it's even not that much uncertainty, right?

Because the tax cuts, mean, some cuts have already happening, right?

We see the Department of Education already saying that they're gonna lose $137 million in
COVID funds.

The Department of Health saying that over $230 million in public health and mental health.

Cuts are coming.

So these are things that are already happening as well.

And so how our lawmakers can explain at a time like now to cut the income tax to me is
just completely unexplainable.

I know a lot of times throughout the, I won't say there was a debate, but a lot of times
throughout the process you would hear, you know, we're in a budget surplus, we're in a

budget surplus.

And since the...

pandemic we've been saying that that is one time federal money that helped lift states out
of severe financial hardship that influx of federal dollars that came into the state as a

result of pandemic relief aid and some of the expansion of tax credits and different
programs like that at that time and education funding and those kinds of things.

And so I think for our lawmakers to saying that we have a surplus, it means that we have
all of our needs met.

plus some, but I think whenever you hear even budget agency requests on the state level,
you hear the Department of Health saying, don't have enough money to carry out needed

services, that people are dying because we haven't expanded Medicaid, that people are
dying because our rural hospitals are closing and people can't drive to Jackson.

to get the needed care that they need before something severe happens to them or even an
unborn child, for instance.

And so, we see that the state did pass a new school funding formula last year, but how are
they going to, and they promised to fully fund that formula, but how are they going to

make good on that promise if we're consistently reducing state revenue?

We continue to see, you know, news about

infrastructure issues, whether it's water and sewer or roads and bridges or broadband
access or any of these kinds of things in the state.

And so I think for our lawmakers to say that there's a budget surplus to the extent that
we can cut the entirety of our state income tax or make any additional cuts at all, I

think is completely unexplainable and something that they haven't really been able to
stand on.

It sounds like a dangerous position.

Jim?

Yeah, let's back up.

what is, maybe you could explain what one voice is.

Yeah, One Voice is a nonprofit group or organization.

We do work statewide, but really our mission is to ensure that everyone thrives.

So our mission is to ensure an equal voice in traditionally silenced communities.

And really when our work is done, we envision a Mississippi with healthy, vibrant
communities, neighborhoods, schools, economy, and most importantly, families.

so

our aim is to help provide the resources and the tools to people in communities to impact
the formation of public policy that really affects their lives.

And we do that through a variety of ways.

We do it through action policy and action research.

We do it through leadership, development and training.

And then none of the work that we do, we do alone.

And so we also do it through partnerships.

And so we partner with a lot of different organizations.

There's no

issue area that we do by ourselves.

And so we really are a group that seeks to create a better future Mississippi and make
sure that we kind of reimagine what some of these systems and things look like so that we

create a space where everybody, every Mississippian can thrive.

Going back to the income tax, I think I understand and yet it doesn't make sense.

The top percentage people would receive roughly $40,000 cut in their taxes.

Is that correct?

Yes, sir.

I understand that because if you're making

a of million a year, you would expect to have a $40,000 tax.

the $43.

What group does that?

I mean, it's.

That's two trips to McDonald's or maybe three.

ah Maybe, right.

son likes Wendy's and it's, I mean, we might as well go get a real dinner somewhere
sometimes.

So that's a great question.

So I get that question sometimes.

So we're talking about that small tax cut being had on individuals making around $19,000
or less.

Like you said, it's chunk change compared to the amount of money that the wealthiest
Mississippians will get.

Now we know that is because folks with lower and middle incomes are actually paying less
in taxes or income taxes than those wealthy Mississippians.

I asked, know, well, isn't that fair if people are paying more into the system, they
should get a greater tax cut?

And my response was, you know, we are advocating for a tax system that's fair and that's
equitable.

And so if we're going to provide fairness,

in the sense that we can give wealthiest Mississippians and corporations such a tax break
and we know the financial hardship and burden that's on some lower and middle income

families right now, why don't we enact policies that help them?

So why are we just focused on an income tax cut?

Why weren't our lawmakers considering an earned income tax credit or a child tax credit?

or why weren't they considering policies that would make the tax code more equitable in
terms of everyone paying their fair share?

And so there are discrepancies again, in terms of like who's actually paying into the
system and what that means as a percentage of income.

We're saying overall that it's just not fair that we're taking away more from the least
and we're not doing anything to kind of help people out on that end.

The other thing that's happening that's really concerning is that not only are we
providing this income tax cut, but we are raising taxes to help pay for the income tax

cut.

So in most cases around the country, when you see states that have cut income taxes, one
of two things happens.

To make up for that lost revenue, they either have to raise other taxes, which usually
with some states with no income tax have higher property tax rates.

higher sales tax rates, or they will have to cut public services.

And so we see that again with the concern of the federal government right now and some of
the tax cuts that's happening now and the economic uncertainty, we're afraid that that

might be what's next.

Gotcha.

is a figure of $43 that's always quoted.

Is that the total amount of taxes that somebody making $19,000 a year pays?

uh

that is the total result of the House Bill 1.

So that is a combined impact of the income tax cut, the grocery tax reduction, and the
increase in the gas tax.

So that would be the savings.

And this is data that was provided to us by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy.

They have what's called a...

They have a tax simulation model that they run across all states.

And so this data was based on the impact of that model.

Well then, in a perfect world, and it seems like you deal with taxes quite a bit, in a
perfect world, would you have our taxes be?

What type of a tax system would we have?

I always hear fair.

I don't know what fair is.

Yeah, so basically fair means everyone paying their fair share.

So that can look like a few things.

That could look like taxing wealth to ensure that the state's wealthiest Mississippians
pay what they owe.

That means also that corporations pay what they owe.

We know, saw some bumper stickers that were saying, you know, I pay more in taxes than
Tesla.

It's true.

The majority of Mississippians, the majority of Americans individually are paying more
taxes

Then companies like Tesla or Amazon or these other companies.

So again, taxing wealth to make sure that everyone is paying their fair share, whether
it's individuals or corporations.

We want to strengthen, not eliminate the income tax.

Again, across the country, we've seen conservative policymakers focus on tax cuts for the
wealthy and they do that through the income tax.

Whereas they have no problem raising sales taxes.

or things like that that again disproportionately affect folks with lower and middle
income.

So we could see a strengthening of the income tax.

We did a report around the time of the 2022 tax cuts.

So we did some data analysis.

I'll have to pull it that showed that instead of cutting the income tax, if you increase
taxes on folks that are making over a hundred thousand dollars a year,

it would have a minimal impact in terms of the amount of taxes they will pay, but it will
have a huge impact in terms of the total revenue that the state could bring in from that

tax.

And so we talk about strengthening, not eliminating the income tax, getting away from that
flat tax in states, reinstating the corporate tax and the state tax in Mississippi.

Again, that means kind of expanding our tax base.

not shrinking it to make sure that we're getting the amount of revenue that we need to run
the government to fully fund public services and then expanding the sales tax base include

internet businesses and travel companies.

So there are a lot of different kind of tax policies that would go to help increase state
revenue.

That's the goal, right?

To not only make sure that people pay their fair share, but to make sure that the state
has enough money to fully...

pay for its current services and programs, but to also invest in other things that we
would like to see.

And we need adequate, if not higher, state revenue in order to do those things.

seems to me that most of the legislators that I know could get by very well paying more
taxes.

They're quite well off, almost without exception.

don't know one that's on poverty or gets food stamps or lives day to day.

they do quite well on their own.

of the points that I try to make outside of just kind of this debate about the numbers,
about the taxes.

We also have to understand how our government is functioning right now.

And it's not functioning for the people.

These kind of bills like House Bill 1, they were not created by Mississippi lawmakers.

These are not like Mississippi lawmakers got together in a room and considered how do we
reform the state's tax system?

the bright idea that they came up with.

These are bills that are floating around the country by ultra conservative interest groups
that have large donors contributing to these interests.

These bills are copied across states and they really see what state kind of bites on it.

After 2022, when we reduced the income tax but didn't cut it, nationally it was kind of
considered as a win.

It's like if Mississippi can't do this,

then other states can't do this with a Republican super majority.

And so one voice is not partisan, by the way, I'm just saying just in terms of just the
facts of kind of what's going on.

um These are bills that are floating around the country.

There are no debates about this.

There are no rooms for public hearings.

know, these bills are dropping late afternoon.

They're going for a committee vote.

the next morning by 10 o'clock, they're going to a floor vote by two.

I'm not getting even the data analysis by the time that the full floor is voting on these
bills.

Our legislatures don't know what they're voting on.

They don't even have a chance to read the bills.

I mean, these are bills that are hundreds of pages long.

And so just, I think it speaks not only to a lack of maybe, well, not maybe, but a lack of
priorities in terms of our lawmakers.

but also kind of how bad governance has gotten in Mississippi to where there's such a lack
of transparency and that there's no room for public debate or public hearings or even

analyses.

I mean, the fact that we are passing bills as big as House Bill 1 with no fiscal note
attached to it, we don't know what our economic outlook looks like, right?

We don't know what the future...

spending priorities will be for public services.

And so these are decisions that are made blindly under kind of political ideologies and
not necessarily data or expert analysis.

And I think that's something to really lift up and to raise up and that this isn't
happening like in every state, that other state governments and legislators are

functioning with legislative staff who are helping our legislators.

with time for public hearings and public input, with time for agency input.

And so I think that's another thing to kind of highlight with bills like this and why
we're able to pass, our lawmakers are able to kind of pass these things so quickly.

And I think this bill is kind of a perfect example of kind of the lack of governance
that's happening in the state.

And even, you know, the House Bill 1 was passed even with the typos and the misplaced
decimal point.

So that's a prime example of what you just said about the bills being pushed through.

Yeah, you know, that day was pretty crazy just to kind of watch that play out.

And then by the end of the day, it's like your head is already on a swivel.

And then by the end of the day, like you're just scratching your head and it's just like
people are like, how do you feel?

I don't know.

Like it's hard to even kind of come up with some kind of a logical kind of analysis, a
summation of kind of what's happening.

And when I was sharing updates,

know, live updates with partners from outside of the state, they were just like, we have
never seen this before.

Like, this is the first time we've ever seen anything like this.

And so we really have to hold our public officials, elected officials more accountable for
not only the laws that they passed, but also how they govern and how they come about that.

Let me ask you a...

we have welcomed those to come join us.

Go ahead, Jim.

let me ask you a question because I haven't found anybody that's got the answer yet.

We need to have an initiative petition.

We need to be able to put forward changes that the public watch.

We've got legislators that have been in office for, I don't know, 30 years or more.

We need term limits.

Given our legislation, our legislators, and our state constitution, it seems to me that
until there is something really egregious that happens, nothing is going to change.

Be it a woman's right to choose, be it taxes, be it whatever you want to pick on.

it's going to take something major that really disrupts the entire system.

And I don't know what that is because I sure would like to get it started.

you

Well, I think from an organizational perspective, I don't have the answer.

Of I wish I did.

From an organizational standpoint, I will say, you know, that's kind of one voice's
mission is just to empower communities and empower individuals to be more engaged in the

formation of policy that affects our lives.

When I would go down to the Capitol, a lot of lawmakers were saying, people are against
this, let us know, because all we're hearing are the voices of one particular group.

And so, you know, in terms of

My work primarily focuses on, of course, like the policy and the research, but there are
folks in the community working to build up civic infrastructure at the same time and to

engage folks.

We know that Mississippi's demographics are changing.

We know that voting age populations in those demographics are changing across the state.

We know that there are places

where people have more power than they think that they have, and that we really have to
work to empower them with the tools and the resources that best fits their communities and

their people.

And so we really are hammering, you know, access to the ballot and expanding voting rights
at the same time and getting folks registered to vote and trying to get folks to the polls

and eliminating purges.

It really does take like all of these things happening.

happening together.

One of our program managers, Mr.

Figures, he would leave every conversation with stay strong and keep the faith.

And it's like, we gotta keep going.

Like now is not the time to kind of rest or stop that we really have important work to do.

And that if we keep going, we can really see a change in the state.

And we really have to be hopeful about that and hopeful about the prospects that we have
for change.

But it really, it's not gonna start.

It's gonna start from the ground up.

But if we're thinking about lawmakers and those kinds of things, we really have to make
better decisions at the ballot box.

I was speaking at a maternal health conference not too long ago and the question was, what
is one public policy that you would change right now if you could to improve maternal

health?

And of course, the first answer is always expand Medicaid.

But my answer is expand access to the ballot box.

We know that if we...

had 26, what, thousand votes last November, there would be a governor in the state of
Mississippi that would have expanded Medicaid.

There would be folks in these positions where we wouldn't have to fight for some of these
things.

Some of the things that you're talking about in terms of Medicaid expansion, healthcare,
women's rights to choose, and these kinds of things are very popular ideas amongst the

majority of Mississippians.

A lot of polls show that.

most Mississippians favor these particular policies.

We just have lawmakers that are in place right now who are not prioritizing the needs of
the people and who are focused on pleasing outside interest groups or, you know,

self-political careers and these kind of things.

And it is detrimental to our state and it's really detrimental to our communities and our
families.

And so we really have to find a way to address

that particular issue and make sure that we get elected officials in place who share our
priorities and our values and then that we hold folks accountable as well when they don't

do that.

And we all have to, you know, take accountability for that and to do a better job of that.

Seems like...

remain hopeful.

It can be.

That was a very good answer.

And you brought out a lot of topics, Jim.

I was just going to say it reminds me of the plantation philosophy of men being superior
to women.

It seems like we've got a lot of legislators that have that opinion.

And it shows in their actions.

And shows in their priorities and it shows in their voting records.

mean, you know, one of the things that we say, if I take it back to taxes, it's like a tax
policy isn't going to provide this automatic economic boom that they're promising.

It hasn't happened in any other state.

It's not going to happen in Mississippi.

It's not going to bring people and businesses flooding into the state.

What people want and what people want to see from Mississippi, or they want to see good
schools,

They want an educated workforce to be able to bring businesses and things in.

Folks want to come to good communities where there's healthy communities and safe
communities.

These are the kind of things that people want.

People want infrastructure and then people want to be able to invest in things that are
fun.

know, things that you can take your kids to, things just to kind of relax and have fun.

Those are the kind of communities that people want.

And that's the kind of Mississippi that we want to see where

you know, again, not just people are living that people are thriving and tax policy isn't
alone, isn't going to do that.

Some of the economic policies that we see alone aren't going to do that.

So it really takes all of these things to kind of build up this kind of Mississippi that
we want to see.

And we just got to get our lawmakers to get on the same page with us and to, you know.

vote for our interests and then we gotta vote for our own interests.

So it really is a problem that's not easy to solve, but there are policy solutions, there
are civic engagement solutions and we just gotta keep pounding those away.

I don't know whether you can answer this or not, but you mentioned the 137,000 million
that is not going to be coming to the state for education.

When I looked at the list, there's 70 schools that are getting hit.

And I did not count.

each and every one of them, but just browsing through it, looked to me like probably three
fourths or more were county schools and they were rural schools.

And I don't know whether you can answer this or not.

Who decided what schools get cut?

Now that part I do not know.

What I do know is even before the ending of this COVID relief money to schools, we knew
kind of the position that Mississippi was in.

There's this kind of federal policy or federal funds misnomer throughout the Mississippi,
where we'll hear the governor say, you know, we don't want to rely on federal funds.

want to

don't want to be depending on federal funds when it comes to things like Medicaid
expansion, for instance, or some of the safety net programs like expanding or increasing

TANF benefits or SNAP benefits or those kinds of things.

we know, that's apparently that's what, yeah.

So Mississippi was already, federal funds already make up our largest revenue source.

So they do more to support Mississippi's public services than taxes or anything else.

We also know that Mississippi, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, is
the second most federally dependent state.

When it comes to education and the money that was coming in for the government for
education, mean, Mississippi's public schools were really, really held up and supported by

pandemic relief funds.

according again to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, even the ESSER funds that
were lost in Mississippi accounted for 17 % of the state's education budget.

So even before the recent cuts to education from this COVID-19 money, public schools are
already kind of under, well not kind of, are under attack.

We have this again with

our reliance or dependence on federal funds to fund public education in Mississippi, but
then we also have responsibility from state lawmakers who are pushing more public tax

dollars into private schools through tax credits, into charter school expansions, into the
threats of universal voucher programs.

And so when we talk about

the $137 million that's being cut in the 70 schools that are being affected by that, I
think the picture is gonna be a lot bigger than that.

Again, our new school funding formula is only a couple years old.

That was passed without any kind of fiscal note or analysis, so we don't really know what
the full impact or consequence of that will be, whether it's good or bad.

And so these...

beyond the 70 schools that be affected by this one pot of money, we really have been
concerned about the overall threat to public school funding in Mississippi.

And I think that's something as we look into the impact of these tax cuts and as we look
into the impact of other federal policies like the potential closure of the Department of

Education or any more education funding cuts beyond those 70 county schools.

I think Mississippi's public education system is really at threat and we really have to do
more to help make sure that we keep public education in the state of Mississippi and that

we continue to fight for increased funding for public schools throughout the state.

We support that and we agree with you a hundred percent.

Recently we had representative Robert Johnson on and it was, it was, I love him.

I mean, he, there's so much passion, like there's passion that we see from you.

And he was talking about public education.

And then we recently had Jack Reed Jr.

And we did a segment on desegregation in public schools in Mississippi and doing some
research on it.

of the things that I found out and Mr.

Reed brought out is through that policy from 1957 to 1970, Mississippi officials kept
talking about choice schools.

And here it is, you know, they started it in the fifties in 2025.

They are still bringing up the school choice and school vouchers.

And it is simply, and this is my soapbox and this is my opinion is that yes, it is
strictly, yo, I could, is that it's all about segregation.

When you eliminate.

diversity, equity, inclusion, you take that away and what do you have?

You've got segregation.

Jim, one thing that you brought up about how much money the schools are losing, I will say
this in DeSoto County, one of the largest and probably one of the most profitable, or if

you wanna use that word, in DeSoto County, we did not lose a dime.

Now, looking through here, and I don't know these counties, but Greenwood Lafour County,
excuse me, Consolidated School Systems, $7 million.

You know, and that's in Greenwood.

So, Jim.

schools that's already right up well been impacted by, like you said, racial segregation,
by divestment from the state and those kind of things.

And so our rural school districts and majority black school districts have already kind of
had a tough go.

at things and again, we were thinking that the school funding format could kind of help
address some of those issues or kind of get that conversation, those conversations to go a

little bit deeper, but with the threats or with these current cuts in the potential
threats that there are, in addition to the lost revenue from the income tax, we know and

we've been saying this, we work closely with the parents campaign throughout kind of this
tax cut fight.

And when we said this, you know,

even when the state passed teacher pay raises a couple years ago, during the same time
that more tax cuts were coming.

We know that if public services have to be reduced because of any kind of revenue
shortfall and balancing the state budget, education is always the first to go.

We saw that after the Great Recession.

And we see that too in other states that have recently tried to...

battle with these income tax cuts like Kentucky, like Arizona, Ohio, those kind of places
where if public services have to get cut, education is always usually first to go.

And part of that is because we spend more, larger percentage of our state budget on
education, even though we kind of lag behind national trends in terms of how much money

that is.

But that is such a huge concern is that

If more cuts come, if the state doesn't have money to cover that, and if increasing taxes
and other places can't help make up that revenue, then those public services, those

budgets are going to be cut and education is going to be the first to go.

That's it.

did reach out to and we commend Dr.

Lance Evans for his letter that he sent to Department of Education Secretary Linda McMahon
asking her to reconsider that.

We appreciate his article and his comments as well with Dr.

Philip Birchfield.

And we have also reached out to them.

We'd love to talk to them.

Jim?

thing that, one of the things that always puzzles me is the legislature's methods.

It would seem to me that the state legislature ought to take a look at what is necessary
to bring in new high paying, good paying jobs and what our company's looking for.

And it's really pretty simple.

They're looking at education, they're looking at healthcare, and they're looking at
infrastructure.

And if you've got those three things going, you've got a good chance at bringing in
industry.

When I look at what the legislature actually does for 90 days.

It seems to me like they don't spend more than about 48 hours.

on any one of those issues.

But they spend hundreds and hundreds of hours on casinos, on...

liquor sales on, you just name it, whatever somebody comes up with, they've got a bill for
it.

And then we go waste time having hearings and et cetera, et cetera.

And I think it's a waste of the taxpayers' money.

think most Mississippians would agree.

Yeah, absolutely.

I was going to say our partners, the Economic Policy Institute released a report not too
long ago, I think last year maybe call.

Well, it talked about the southern economic development model.

So basically what it talks about is that Mississippi, along with southern states, kind of
we've shaped our economy by these labor intensive industries, such as agriculture and of

course, manufacturing.

And and we haven't

moved away from some of those things.

And it really brought about heavy reliance on these exploitative labor practices,
beginning with slavery and continuing to sharecropping domestic labor until now, you have

this economic development model that's built on low-cost labor.

uh

in support of business friendly practices.

And so we get low wages, we get low taxes, we get minimal regulations on businesses,
limited labor protections, a weak safety net, and strong opposition to units to try to

bring businesses in when what you were just saying is the opposite.

Businesses want good education.

They want strong communities.

They want good health care.

And so we really are prioritizing

wrong.

there's just, I, you know, I just don't know how we can pass some of the policies that we
pass knowing some of the economic kind of issues.

And I know some people may argue that, you know, the economy's doing good, the economy's
struggling, but look at the people.

And that's what we say.

It's like the policy should mirror the We can say that

Mississippi has had some, well, you better than expected revenue collections and stuff
coming out of the pandemic and those kinds of things.

But where are people?

Are people still suffering?

Are they still facing severe hardship?

Are they still fighting?

Are still sending their kids to schools that, you know, don't have infrastructure, that
don't have heating and cooling?

Our kids still going hungry to where they can't get meals.

And then we have a governor that's denying summer feeding benefits to kids and those kinds
of things are, know, what are we doing to help increase mental health and these kinds of

other health services that folks need in communities?

And so it really, you know, it just keeps going back to misplaced priorities and misplaced
opportunities within our legislature kind of year after year after year.

And I've seen some articles being written about, you know, the super majority and how
that's, you know, impacting a place like Mississippi where you kind of block out these

more, I will increase kind of diversity of ideas and opinions because we do have kind of a
super majority where other opinions and ideas can't kind of get in and flow or where we

are mirroring some federal policies.

that don't help Mississippians.

And so I think if policy should be shaped by the people and right now, you know, that's
just not the case for state lawmakers right now, or at least those and some, the

decision-making authorities in Mississippian.

I think it just all goes back to those priorities that you keep talking about.

I've talked to several legislators and

It seems that their positions have always been, they want to try to work with the other
side, the other side being the Republicans to try to mitigate the damage being done.

I don't know.

It seems to me, because I guess I'm a fighter, that I don't want to mitigate damage.

I want to scream and yell and holler and fight and let the whole world know what's going
on and who's doing it and see if I can't bring about change.

Because to me, it's always been my experience in life and in business.

When you quote, mitigate, or you give a little, you give an inch, then you give a foot,
and then pretty soon it's gone.

And that just seems to be what continues to happen.

pretty soon you get to be.

pacifist almost.

You'll go along to get along.

And that's just not how our legislature or legislative process was intended to work.

You know, and we as kind of everyday kind of public citizens, have to we have to make our
voices heard to show that the status quo isn't good enough, right?

Like you said, mitigating damages isn't good enough.

Just playing defense just to say, OK, we didn't get what we wanted, but we stopped this
from happening.

Like, that's not good enough.

We have to do both at the same time.

We have to play defense, but we have to have a clear vision for what.

you know, that vision looks like.

And that's why you see kind of when one voice is in your naming, all of these kinds of
policy issues that we're working on.

That's why we have to take this whole community approach to helping better Mississippi.

And we have to really go beyond what the status quo is and not just asking for enough, but
to...

ask for more than that, but we also have to have a concrete vision and plan for what that
looks like.

And that's why you see like our legislative agenda being 20 something pages long, because
it's really laying out a blueprint.

Sometimes when I'm speaking, people ask, know, well, what policies do or help decrease
poverty and help folks thrive?

And it's like, we've seen policies work in other states.

We've seen the policies that were put into place after the pandemic.

Again, when you see expanded tax credit.

credits where you see increased investments in education to try to curb some of the
learning loss from COVID-19, where you see some of the increases in healthcare funding and

those kinds of things.

And we've seen poverty decline by particular policies.

I tell people all the time, the partner of the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy,
ITEP, they did a study not too long ago that showed for, think it was about, these numbers

might not be exactly right, about half the cost.

of the 2022 tax cuts, Mississippi could have created a child tax credit that could have
cut child poverty in half.

I mean, there are workable solutions.

We just gotta make that connection with our lawmakers to get them on board with what
Mississippians want.

And that's to move past, I guess, these national, political, and cultural ideologies and
really look to the people.

and see what your people need and what they want.

And if you help them, you'll help the economy.

If you help people, you can bring about changes in healthcare and infrastructure and
education and all these things.

But along the way, or maybe in very few spaces, kind of in the history of our state, have
we cared enough about people and all people in order for that to happen.

But again, just to bring a little bit of hope back into the conversation, we're working on
both fronts to kind of make sure that that's happening.

And that's why you see us focus on not necessarily the research, but also building these
partnerships, increasing civic engagement, and also developing leaders to make sure that

we keep the train moving, we keep things moving in an upward direction.

And we'll get there.

We'll get there.

As you said, you have to be, stay strong and keep the faith.

I love that.

Jim, what you got?

Anything else?

good friend of yours, Cliff Johnson said to say hello.

uh hi.

That's awesome.

I admire the work of the MacArthur Justice Center.

They do such amazing work.

And the job that he's done at the University of Mississippi and helping to get folks like
me interested in criminal justice and civil legal aid work has been amazing.

mean, I just can't say enough good things about the work that they do.

If you come up with a...

I'm reluctant to say a single plan, but if you come up with a number one project for the
next legislature, I sure would like to be involved in it.

I think that

when you send 135 or 140.

people down to Jackson, you send 135 or 140 ideas and some of them get heard and most of
them get an ear but don't go anywhere.

But there ought to be, you if you conduct a meeting, you've got an agenda.

And I don't think the legislature has ever had an agenda per se.

And I think it's time for an agenda.

It's time to say, this is what's number one.

This is what's number two.

This is what's number three.

We got to get off the bottom.

We got to quit spending 90 days.

every year talking about liquor sales or whatever it is.

We've got to let's talk about education.

Let's do infrastructure.

Let's see if we can't do one thing and do it well for a change.

And then the next year, take on another one and let's work at getting off the bottom.

That's a great idea, Jim.

We should keep in touch.

Any last words for us and for our subscribers and how can we help you get the assistance
that you need from our subscribers?

What can we do for you?

Well, the first thing, thank you for the opportunity.

The first thing is to again, hold our elected officials accountable.

You know, the passage of House Bill 1 and the elimination of the state income tax is
really devastating for someone who's kind of like working in the weeds of it day in and

day out and kind of seeing or having a deeper kind of understanding of the impact.

so

is the fight though isn't over, because this laws passed doesn't mean that there's not
more work to do.

So when the first of which is to help us hold elected officials, both Democrats that voted
for and Republicans accountable for their choices and continue to talk to them about the

priorities of the state and the priorities of our community.

And so we have to continue that fight.

We know that Kentucky had to end up rolling back some of.

those tax cuts and we know those kind of decisions are hard to do with the legislative
rules and the legislative makeup, but there's a lot more work to be done in terms of tax

reform and budget reform in the state of Mississippi.

The last two things quickly I'll say is as we are watching what's happening on the federal
level, as we are bringing our head against the wall about what our state lawmakers are

doing and what they could do better, there really is an opportunity for us to

look inward and focus on what's going on in our local communities, especially with
municipal elections happening right now.

And so we created a local policy agenda for elected officials that talks about some of
these things, Jim, that you're talking about.

We know on a local level, education and health care and all those things are really
important.

But so are things like housing and food assistance and

rental utility assistance and just some of the things that make our local community
stronger.

And so I would really encourage folks to really take a look at these municipal elections.

Take a look at our local policy agenda on our website and see if there are any ideas that
kind of stick out to you that you can do in your local communities to help build those up

as we continue to advocate for those policy priorities on the state level.

And as we shield ourselves from whatever is coming up on the federal level.

You

so I encourage folks to stay engaged.

You can do it with us or with any of our partner organizations.

OneVoiceMS.org is our website.

There a lot of our publications, research publications are posted on that website.

And then you can also follow us on social media at OneVoiceMS.

And so we appreciate, I appreciate you inviting me on to share these thoughts and you
know.

hope to kind of keep in touch and we hope that you know your audience stays engaged
throughout the year with what's going on and to stay hopeful.

Yes, and thank you.

Thank you for being with us.

This has been a lot of fun.

You've given us a lot to think about.

You've given us a lot of facts in which we need and that's.

One Voice, how do they do that?

They can visit that website, onevoicems.org, and there's like a spot for you to share your
information.

We have need volunteers throughout the year to help with election protection, to help with
get out to vote efforts and voter registration efforts.

They can be involved in some of our...

leadership development institutes or staying engaged with some of our partnerships and
coalition buildings and so you can find all of that information on our website.

Thank you.

Jim, any last thoughts before we wrap up?

looking forward to the next one.

uh Amen.

Thank you.

okay, we do want to thank our sponsors.

We do want to thank our...

sponsors and our subscribers for your continued support.

If you have any questions or comments or suggestions, please send us an email at
mshappenings1, which is mshappenings, the number one, at gmail.com.

And as always, may, yeah, call me, that's okay.

And may we never become indifferent to the suffering of others.

Thank you.